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This Update...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TheOriginalRed, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. Brqd

    Brqd Member

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    Here I'd like to talk about the new update and some of the good and bad things that came with it.
    PLEASE READ EVERYTHING BEFORE COMMENTING!


    OWNERS!!!
    I can understand how stressed out you may be with this update coming out. Keep trying your best to make this server great, while taking in feedback from players! Thank you for everything you do!

    BUILDERS!!!
    Great job on making such a fabulous map! It's extremely big, and very detailed! I am extremely appreciative of your hard work that you put into the map! It looks great!

    ALL STAFF!!! Thank you staff for hanging in there and doing your job! I know a lot of hate about the update may be directed towards you, but please try and not have a biased view. Look at everyone's opinion (including the haters) :)

    Into the Details!
    The Good!
    -The map is looking better than ever before!!! Although there are still many unfinished buildings, those will surely be fixed later... right?
    -The looting system is great and very realistic! Bags are much more realistic than chests in the "Old TMD"
    -Making bikes much harder to obtain is another great plus!!! Along with many others, I am extremely grateful that you guys made this addition (or "subtraction") to the update!
    -Inventories were reset! This had to be done, and I'm glad that it was!

    The Bad!
    -The painkiller cooldown... Some people may like it, but it's really not a great thing over all. The fact that 2 nakeds can double team a full jugg and kill them is crazy. People may say that painkiller spam shows no skill, but usually the more skilled players end up winning in fights. In this update though, winning a fight is usually based on who gets the first shot, not skill (no matter what gear they're in...) I am sorry but I kindly disagree with the people that say using painkillers takes no skill. In a fight the more skilled player almost always wins.
    -The 100k limit a day to infinite money. Now before you get all mad and say I depend on infinite money... I don't even have it! :p Back to the topic.... I simply do not think that this is enough money to gear someone up when they want to fight multiple times. Nor is it enough to gear someone else up that you may feel bad for, or you are friends with. The economy was ruined by the duped jug, not by infinite money! Please bring it back!
    -Overall I think dying is simply too easy.... :/

    The Ugly!
    -I believe that in the long run you may experience a loss of players. I would feel extremely bad for the owners and TMD as a whole if this were to happen.
    -Something else that could possibly happen is the income of roleplayers and decrease of pvpers. Now I know that there are many roleplayers on the server, but I would say there are many more pvpers. So what I am trying to say is, if pvpers were to quit the server (majority of TMD-1 and -2) the server would become dead. This is no attack against roleplayers! You enjoy what you enjoy!



    Conclusion!
    In conclusion I believe that some features of TMD need to be changed to their original state. Either that or a whole new server be created for players who would wish for it to be that way.
    My opinion is that there are two sides that cannot be mixed with the other! There are many players who love the update and it's features, and many who hate it and love the "Old TMD." My suggestion is that a 2 server system would be the best option for HavocMC, 1 with the new gamemode, and 1 with all of the old features.
    The reasoning behind this is simply because only 50% of your players would enjoy the server if you chose 1 of the 2 sides. And don't we all want everyone to be happy???

    I kindly ask that no one give me hate in your replies for my opinions and I will do the same for you as well (unless you do give me hate). I am just trying to put my opinion (and many others) out there.


    Before leaving I would like to mention one more thing...........:
    Too all who have ever played on a sword pvp server!!! Saying pains are to OP is like saying a health pot is too OP..... And making a cooldown on painkiller usage is basically like 2 people fighting naked with katanas and seeing who wins, A NONE SKILLED PLAYER COULD GET THE FIRST HIT EASILY...

     
    #1
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  2. Kyorashi

    Kyorashi Member

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    +1
     
    #2
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  3. wh00

    wh00 Member

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    +1
     
    #3
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  4. wh00

    wh00 Member

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    Completely agree.
     
    #4
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  5. _VC_

    _VC_ Builder

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    Might be the first argument I've seen that makes valid sense and isn't senseless whining or raging. These points make a lot of sense, even though I don't mind the infinite cap, I do think it will be changed because that seems to be the thing people hate the most, which Is understandable. We never told anyone before hand which I guess was a mistake. At that time I don't think we thought people would care too much since it's still a good amount of free money and it was our only idea on making it less OP. But I guess infinite is the one thing we can't really touch without starting riots. Everytime infinites been tampered with in the past it's caused chaos. Well we tried...again. I know there are some who would love limiting infinite but there is an overwhelming majority group who wouldn't. My thoughts on the pain killers:
    I get you mean how the first shot usually determines who wins. When I first started that was my biggest complaint. And in a lot of cases it's completely true, even to this day.(Keep in mind I've been playing since 2013) But what I figured out is you have to be able to not put yourself in a situation where you're an easy "first shot". I'll use your example, 2 nakeds taking down a full jugg. Say the full jugg was running through the streets of Atlanta. The nakeds were teamed, and crouching in a building following the jugg nametag hopping around in the streets. These nakeds sit in cover and wait for a good moment to jump out, because if they go head on without hiding, they will easily lose because they have no armor. So they wait and once they have the right timing they jump him, katana him down with kit assassin. In the old days if you were jumped in the same situation you spam the hell out of your pains then spaz them down. But now you can't do that. Let me ask you this, who deserves the kill in that situation? The nakeds were smart and knew they wouldn't win a head on fight so they ducked in cover and waited for a suprise attack. The jugg didn't care for cover or sneaking around so he was hopping the streets thinking his armor would protect him and doubting the chances that anyone's gonna jump him. In that case the nakeds 100% deserve it because they outplayed the jugg because he thought it he was safe. They used the fact he thought he was safe to their advantage. That there is a very smart move. Making pains not spammable makes walking through the streets scarier, and more difficult. How many times on the old tmd did you hop through atlanta on your way to a war and some survivor , waiting in a building, jumped you and you effortlessly spammed pains and spazed him down like it was nothing. He waited there for maybe 5 minutes for his chance to kill you and you ended him in 3 clicks. You never saw him till he took his first shot, he managed to hide from you up until his big chance, but it didn't matter because you were able to get ur health back in an instant and drop him. None of that is skill, hiding and stalking someone who's chosen to hop around showing his nametag to everyone and waiting to pounce is skill. Another form of skill is what I do: always assume there is someone who is scoped in at you, or there is someone behind that door with a mossberg, or there is a sniper right around that corner. If you think you're always in danger, then you'll act like it, which is safer in the long run and you'll die less. Think about a real life apocalypse, you can't just be strolling through the streets of Atlanta like nothing, someone will see you and gun you down in an instant, or stab you, whatever. You've gotta check of the coast is clear sometimes, or sneak through buildings, or be aware of every possible shooting angle around you. All that was done just by making pains have a cooldown, which is pretty damn realistic and intense to me. Don't worry you aren't the only one who's been killed by nakeds. I was full riot and died to some noob with an m4 the other day because I was strolling through a town, turned the corner and he was just waiting. Now if you can develop the sneaking and hiding tacitcal moves, but with jugg or riot gear on and good weapons you will be unstoppable. TMD pvp has a lot more strategy to it than people think.
     
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  6. Katitude

    Katitude Member

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    @TheOriginalRed Thank you for creating a thread for feedback and a respectful opinion, we all appreciate it. :)
    To be fair, I favour what @_VC_ is saying; from my interpretation, he is describing that there are new tactics of pvp to be explored and discovered, and this will help with not dying as easily and benefit you in terms of the painkiller cooldown. I also agree with the infinite cap and 100k (Currently 130k) isn't a lot when considering essential needs. People are used to buying a lot of gear and perhaps rely on it but they end up only being able to gear themselves up once or twice. I want to explain my opinions and when players are constantly barking at us, I end up just telling them to accept it and say things aren't changing. When someone creates a thread to complain, I have to give feedback on that compared to respectful feedback threads where we can reconsider and think on things that could be modified. I dearly apologize for any disrespect I've shown on threads prior to this and the same topic; I agree we should edit or modify the infinite cap as people have spent a lot of money on it, and I appreciate not spreading negativity with a straight forward, organized thread. Sometimes when I comment on the negative threads trying to explain tactics, players may only see negativity but when you view both perspectives on the manner as you have, you can see both a player and staff member view and clearly explain your thoughts and opinions without causing harm. Thank you! :D

    Yours Respectfully,

    ~Katitude ^w^
     
    #6
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  7. _VC_

    _VC_ Builder

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    Wow rip my grammar
     
    #7
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  8. Rejante

    Rejante Member

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    I like the headings. You're points are solid. I can't say anything about the map because I haven't seen it. YET. But I can't wait to be back, 9 days in counting!
     
    #8
  9. Jahango

    Jahango Member

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    This is a really good post and yes it has some very good points and one of the main points I would like to focus in on is the Painkiller topic, so about painkillers.. yes pains being spammable was kinda unrealistic and overpowered and I do believe they should still have a cooldown or a limit of how many you can click per second, I think a 10 pains per second cap would be perfect because a lot of people can easily get 6-8 cps and 10 would make it fair. As of right now no one goes jugg and don't say it's because they don't have any... there is a lot of jugg already in the game but people can't survive in it, it doesn't matter how good the player is, if he gets 3v1'd or more he is most likely to die because the cooldown is much too long, Anyways I really hope you come up with something to make the pvpers happy, even if you keep the pains the same I'll still play because I love the server and i'm not too bad even with the cooldown so ya very good post and let's hope it makes a change to things :)
     
    #9
  10. BigMikeJ23

    BigMikeJ23 Member

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    I completely agree with this, their is no point in going jugg anymore.. I already have 5 sets and cant even use them ill just die with them to 3 or 4 nakeds that will just jump me with barrets.. With the Painkillers- I agree with everyone saying a 10 cps on pains is realistic, almost anyone can get 10cps if they practice. So this wouldn't put anyone at a disadvantage and would make us pvpers happy. I feel as if the update/reset was to make the new players happy.. What about us donators/pvpers who have been in the game for months, even years,The people who made this server what it is today.. Its nearly impossible for us to pvp anymore and we cant have Jugg wars anymore if we did they would last a top of 2mins.I would hate to see this server lose players, which many people have already started to quit.. Very good thread brad and lets hope this does something :):)
     
    #10
  11. 5oup

    5oup Member

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    Not making any drastic changes to the current servers(adding/removing or making two types of gamemodes)would benefit the condition of the server, in terms of a general daily income of players & the balance of those players that prefer pvp or non-pvp, which it's currently not at right now(this balance has diminished due to the new update). Regardless, the server will retain it's overall vast player count, but the remaining server population will be a majority of people that prefer a non-pvp play style over pvp. Obviously, this will be brought about by the painkiller cool-down. This is only a small calculation; however, I'd hate to see a server's main focus, being harmony, disrupted. Implementing a 10 cps on pains or even removing the changing the overall effectiveness/mechanics of pains to accommodate to the immersion of wars, would positively reinforce the current state of the server. "Bike pvp" can be inferred to be no longer existent in the coming-future & I have no doubt that the infinite cap will be amended, but the painkiller cooldown is a negative aspect to the overall flow of everything revolving pvp, even TMD, itself, e.g. the value of juggernaut armour & its significance, correlative to the update. As stated previously, jugg armour is essentially useless at the moment due to its susceptibility to the almost instant death of the beholder(its attraction by literally everyone who'd like to acquire it & the easiness of being able do so by the accessibility of the "Barrett"(mostly), etc. which will aid the predator indefinitely with the nerfing of pains. An amendment to the painkiller cool-down, done correctly, would efface this entire ordeal.
     
    #11
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  12. wh00

    wh00 Member

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    I want to point out one thing. What I am going to mention will connect to the painkiller topic. As much as I love this server, this painkiller cooldown has made TMD less fun to play. Before, we would have exciting jugg wars! Now if we had a jugg war it would last like BigMikeJ23 said "a top of 2 mins." The thing about painkillers was that even though they were op and unrealistic, spamming them was essential. In a jugg war before, painkillers would be able to help you live and fight back even when your health was as low as 3-5 hearts. Now if you would be playing and you were as low as that, you already know you're a dead player. I guess what I'm trying to say is spamming pains would let you have comebacks and stay in the game even when your health was really low. That's what made the game fun! :) Those nerve recking moments when you and a jugg were going head to head. Even those moments when you were getting 3v1d. You still had a chance! Now not riot or even jugg fights could last 30 secs. I get you're trying to give other players a chance. I think the 10 painkillers per second cap would be perfect. If people actually want to have a chance they'd just need to practice. ;) VC, amazing point about the nakeds trying to kill the jugg but think of it this way. Who deserves the jugg from this perspective, the nakeds with absolutely no gear and just a katana or the prepared jugg with a bunch of guns and gear that should help him survive 2 nakeds easily. I'd like to point out that even before even nakeds could kill juggs! It was difficult of course but it was possible! :rolleyes: Also, rushing buildings. Now before when people camped buildings, others would try rushing. That was very exciting and nerve recking! You were able to rush because SPAMMABLE PAINKILLERS would keep you alive.:p Now, people don't even think about rushing. They just would need to get shot 2-4 times and they'd be dead. Imagine that? 2-4 clicks and its over.. The painkiller cooldown would not allow them to pain through it. Hope you've considered what I have had to say!:)
     
    #12
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  13. Boscafano

    Boscafano Member

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    Since I don't see myself ever viewing the spammable pains as a good thing on the server, I will do my best to try and suggest an alternative to altering pains again.

    Rebalancing the weapons. Plain and simple. The high damage of weapons was very practical when people were running around with stacks on stacks of pains to spam and you needed to do 10 hearts of damage in a three second window. Now however, the high damage on weapons makes the pvp too fast as it was clearly designed for a different kind of pvp. Obviously this is no longer the case. I think lowering the damage on a few key weapons would go very far in helping combat the quick deaths that people seem to be going through.

    Barrett, Spas, AK and even the G36 need to be nerfed for this current situation to be fixed, plain and simple. It would allow people to live longer in pvp without having to use the crutch of spamming pains which isn't a solution.
     
    #13
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  14. BenSmart112

    BenSmart112 Member

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    Too bad we can't run behind walls and use them for cover while shooting around the corner. Gun damage is too much now. In full jugg, I got two-shotted by a noob without any armor who just had an R700. This was while PvP was on in non-PvP servers, so I wasn't trying to kill anyone I didn't have to.
     
    #14
  15. BenSmart112

    BenSmart112 Member

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    The solution isn't cooldowns, I don't think. It should be overdosing on pains, which was suggested before.
     
    #15
  16. BenSmart112

    BenSmart112 Member

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    I think too many people have infinite post-update, for some reason on days 1 and 2 I saw almost a good thirty people finding inf in their legend crates. Some people got inf twice, which gives 1mil in cash. The server might be messed up beyond the point of repair because of that. Now infinite is so common that everyone will be running around with full riot, spases, aks, as many clips as you can carry in a duff or two, and katanas up their wazoos.
     
    #16
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  17. BenSmart112

    BenSmart112 Member

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    Is it okay if I use PvE servers to just survive, without making up things for a good time, but at the same time try to keep things realistic? Does that count as roleplaying or no?

    Like I refuse antibiotics and keep realistic conversation with other players, things like that?
     
    #17
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  18. jawamaniac

    jawamaniac Member

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    #Bring-back-OLDTMD
     
    #18
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  19. jawamaniac

    jawamaniac Member

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    Who knew TMD who become scInce
     
    #19
  20. Katitude

    Katitude Member

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    Please do not riot with hashtags, you will undoubtedly be punished in game and possibly on the forums.
     
    #20
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